I'm sorry to hear about life being rough, that's never easy, but you're right that it's best to not let it leak into RP. RP is a good escape from RL stuff, but it can be easy to let a lot of that mingle with things in a way that can be just bad for everyone all around. We've all done it before no doubt, it happens. Hope things smooth out for you though, holidays can be a rough time of year.
The rest of what you've brought up doesn't necessarily seem to be for me though, perhaps it would be best to discuss theses things with those involved. However that ends up having to happen.
You really didn't respond to most of the things I brought up, as most of these are not recent things you've started to do with Conan. They've been long standing issues that have been going on in the box.
It actually has nothing to do with the holidays, my grandpa suffered a concussion back in August which caused a blood clot and he just really wasn't doing well for awhile but my mom told me today the clot's gone and he's off all his medication!
but that aside, I'm aware I can be, and always afraid of being too overzealous, I'm an extremely excitable person and impulsive person so I actually really appreciate it when people actually pull me aside to tell me to cool it. As stated above, I don't like confrontation but if someone just lets me know that I'm getting too excited or too pushy then I can handle that. And I believe you're referring specifically to the kidnap plot but honestly, I just didn't see the plurk response, the player involved in that said something to me on AIM and I backed down.
I could easily get into Conan's psychology and why he's regressed so much but I could easily keep you here all night on that, but basically it falls back to his assumption that as long as Ran's safe then everything will be okay, only another person got added to that and it somehow morphed to Conan only feeling safe around Sherlock because he trusts the older's judgement a lot better than he does his own. He is, at his core a terrified six teen year old boy whose darkest fears are being slowly realised. I say sixteen because while Conan identifies (or identified) as being Eighteen, he spent most of his sixteenth year being six, all of his seventeenth as a seven year old, and now almost all of his eighteenth year being eight. He was robbed of his ability to grow up because he's stuck as a child and forcibly separated from his identity and it is making him crazy. actually crazy in canon, I have several points to offer as proof on this point.) He actually thinks of 'Conan' and 'Shinichi' as two separate people. Probably more so that he can keep all his lies straight.
As far as comfort goes, Conan does not actually want it. It's awkward for him and he doesn't like being touched unless it's a specific person, sometimes he needs comfort but he doesn't want it. Banner has noticed this. What Conan wants from Sherlock, is actually for him to tell him when he's being an idiot because he sees it as Sherlock's way of telling him to calm down and that he's being irrational and paranoid. It gets extremely difficult for him to tell the difference between rational and irrational when he starts having paranoia issues and he relies on Sherlock to tell the difference for him.
and as for my getting indignant over how Conan gets treated is mostly becauseI have an unhealthy investment in all of Conan's thoughts and feelings, and he's either trying to help/save someone or it sometimes just feels like people are getting annoyed at him for being terrified by the very thing that destroyed his life once already. as well as the fact it seems to get completely ignored that Conan does not want to deal with certain parties currently in Northtown. But also because it kind of feels like the only plotting I get to do with him is when he royally messes things up, has terrible luck that leads right to danger, or just flat out makes a bad decision. And I'd like to have him show off just how intelligent and capable he is and hopefully with the rest that will be feasible-but currently yeah, I think he started relying so much on Holmes that he slipped a little too close to insane paranoia to even hope to handle the situation logically.
Since I've been mentioned indirectly a few times and directly several times during this, I think it's best that I put in my thoughts as well. I would go to you privately, but it looks like there's an addendum against that. I'm not trying to gang up on you or anything like that, but I would like to make a few things clear.
I felt very uncomfortable during your conflict between the obvious other player and yourself. I already expressed that it felt like you were trying to get me to go to her on your behalf and I genuinely appreciate you letting up on the subject when I told you it made me feel uncomfortable. That said, I feel like there's still some rivalry there between the two of you and I think we should keep the OOC and IC line firmly in place in the future. It's sad when people don't get along, but we can't expect someone else's characters to behave in ways the player views as OOC.
My second point is that it feels awkward to me OOCly when you put so much of Conan's mental health on Sherlock's shoulders. It makes me feel like I must conform to certain patterns when we thread otherwise Conan will break irreparably if I don't. I can't be held responsible for your character. That's your job as a roleplayer.
Finally, I would appreciate it if we no longer have any contact between Vermouth and Sherlock. The two IC inbox threads we've had felt like you were trying to circumnavigate CR to go a specific direction by using your secondary character as a mouthpiece. I should have brought this up after the first thread, but I decided not to since I assumed it was a one time thing.
I'm very sorry things built up this far and turned out this way. I hope that Conan finds a more pleasant existence in the box after his canon reset.
I apologise in advance if this doesn't make any sense in the morning because it's 5AM and I'm literally falling asleep in my chair but I wanted to respond to this before sleep.
You're not the one that should be sorry, I am. You got wrapped up in all this mess and probably the one the most affected by it and I shouldn't have let it get this bad. I've been thinking a lot the past few days about how everything's played out and honestly I don't blame you a bit for being uncomfortable. I'm really sorry I didn't realise how uncomfortable it was making you and I should have. You're absolutely right, it was my job to be responsible for the mental health of my characters not you I should have never put you in that position and I won't do it again.
I don't want to not get along with anyone and if it's uncomfortable for me, I can't even imagine how uncomfortable it is for you. I really do consider and enjoy talking to you as friend so the last thing I wanted was to make you or anyone else feel uncomfortable.
I'd like to clarify that the incident with the mentioned other player isn't the stem of the issue. Conan's reliance on Sherlock and a handful of other characters has been an ongoing thing. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was when you mentioned both in IM and on plurk that the actions taken by me and two other players rendered Conan 'unplayable' for you. It was inappropriate and a better course of action would have been to drop the character or implement your canon reset without making a production of putting a name tag to the reason.
If you truly understand what went wrong and you'll make an effort not to repeat it, then that's good news all around. I would like to make one request regarding any potential plotting/cr for the future. I only need to be pinged once for relevant threads. If I choose not to tag into something for an IC or OOC reason, I reserve the right to make that decision without opening myself up to negotiation.
I'm not going to ask you to avoid talking to me on plurks and I won't refuse to thread with you in general. I don't hate you or harbour you any ill will. Everything's just worked up to a boiling point and I think it might be healthiest for everyone if we take a step back and let things heal naturally.
That's all very good news! Here's to hoping for his continued health in the new year as well.
I wasn't really referring to any specific thing, because it's been multiple ones. Just in general you seem to use Conan's canon as a reason or wedge to push him into things, even when people are trying to do their own thing. I bring up Sherlock and John because it's obvious IC and OOC that Conan has a huge love for Sherlock Holmes stories and detectives, which is awesome, who can fault him, but that's largely where I see this occurring. As I have all three of you on my plurk timeline it's hard to not miss seeing these things happen in plotting plurks, though I typically don't but in or say anything as I'd felt it wasn't my place.
As for everything you're telling me about Conan and his reasons for how he acts and behaves and his emotions, I'm not sure how that factors into what I've said. If I were giving you crit on how you played Conan IC and though you were being OOC, which I honestly can't crit you on not knowing the canon he's from at all, then yes this would be the correct path for this discussion to take. But I'm not critting that.
I just want you to understand that regardless of the IC drama Conan is going through in the box, it's not an excuse to OOCly use it to pressure other people into doing things. You say Conan doesn't want comfort and that he wants Sherlock to tell him he's being an idiot IC, sure that's fine, but OOCly you seem to push very hard for exactly what Conan doesn't want, even when it's not always something people are willing to go along with.
The thing with Conan trying to help/save people is that a lot of the times the way he goes about it ends up with him royally messing up. It's happened a lot really and it's not like ICly these other characters are just going to forget this. They see Conan on the network asking for help or trying to pull one of his little schemes and they just expect a certain something. That's called consequences. That would be like if Khan just killed a bunch of people for no reason, over and over, and people hated him and rightfully were super distrusting and wanted nothing to do with him. ICly sure he's gonna handle it a certain way, but I'm not gonna expect anyone to want to be his bff or trust him as far as they can throw him. That's how RP works. That's how life works, there are consequences for actions good or bad. So while it sucks, these characters already see Conan a certain way and unless he can really do something to make them see otherwise that's just how the cards fall. It's not something that can't be changed, but it's not gonna happen over night or if Conan keeps doing the same thing over and over.
You admitting right up front that you have an unhealthy investment in Conan's thoughts and feelings is one part good that you realize this, but also second part bad since you know this and you still seem to let yourself stay over invested. That's not really a good way to RP as that's how a lot of these issues I've brought up become a problem in the first place.
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I'm sorry to hear about life being rough, that's never easy, but you're right that it's best to not let it leak into RP. RP is a good escape from RL stuff, but it can be easy to let a lot of that mingle with things in a way that can be just bad for everyone all around. We've all done it before no doubt, it happens. Hope things smooth out for you though, holidays can be a rough time of year.
The rest of what you've brought up doesn't necessarily seem to be for me though, perhaps it would be best to discuss theses things with those involved. However that ends up having to happen.
You really didn't respond to most of the things I brought up, as most of these are not recent things you've started to do with Conan. They've been long standing issues that have been going on in the box.
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but that aside, I'm aware I can be, and always afraid of being too overzealous, I'm an extremely excitable person and impulsive person so I actually really appreciate it when people actually pull me aside to tell me to cool it. As stated above, I don't like confrontation but if someone just lets me know that I'm getting too excited or too pushy then I can handle that. And I believe you're referring specifically to the kidnap plot but honestly, I just didn't see the plurk response, the player involved in that said something to me on AIM and I backed down.
I could easily get into Conan's psychology and why he's regressed so much but I could easily keep you here all night on that, but basically it falls back to his assumption that as long as Ran's safe then everything will be okay, only another person got added to that and it somehow morphed to Conan only feeling safe around Sherlock because he trusts the older's judgement a lot better than he does his own. He is, at his core a terrified six teen year old boy whose darkest fears are being slowly realised. I say sixteen because while Conan identifies (or identified) as being Eighteen, he spent most of his sixteenth year being six, all of his seventeenth as a seven year old, and now almost all of his eighteenth year being eight. He was robbed of his ability to grow up because he's stuck as a child and forcibly separated from his identity and it is making him crazy. actually crazy in canon, I have several points to offer as proof on this point.) He actually thinks of 'Conan' and 'Shinichi' as two separate people. Probably more so that he can keep all his lies straight.
As far as comfort goes, Conan does not actually want it. It's awkward for him and he doesn't like being touched unless it's a specific person, sometimes he needs comfort but he doesn't want it. Banner has noticed this. What Conan wants from Sherlock, is actually for him to tell him when he's being an idiot because he sees it as Sherlock's way of telling him to calm down and that he's being irrational and paranoid. It gets extremely difficult for him to tell the difference between rational and irrational when he starts having paranoia issues and he relies on Sherlock to tell the difference for him.
and as for my getting indignant over how Conan gets treated is mostly becauseI have an unhealthy investment in all of Conan's thoughts and feelings, and he's either trying to help/save someone or it sometimes just feels like people are getting annoyed at him for being terrified by the very thing that destroyed his life once already. as well as the fact it seems to get completely ignored that Conan does not want to deal with certain parties currently in Northtown. But also because it kind of feels like the only plotting I get to do with him is when he royally messes things up, has terrible luck that leads right to danger, or just flat out makes a bad decision. And I'd like to have him show off just how intelligent and capable he is and hopefully with the rest that will be feasible-but currently yeah, I think he started relying so much on Holmes that he slipped a little too close to insane paranoia to even hope to handle the situation logically.
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I felt very uncomfortable during your conflict between the obvious other player and yourself. I already expressed that it felt like you were trying to get me to go to her on your behalf and I genuinely appreciate you letting up on the subject when I told you it made me feel uncomfortable. That said, I feel like there's still some rivalry there between the two of you and I think we should keep the OOC and IC line firmly in place in the future. It's sad when people don't get along, but we can't expect someone else's characters to behave in ways the player views as OOC.
My second point is that it feels awkward to me OOCly when you put so much of Conan's mental health on Sherlock's shoulders. It makes me feel like I must conform to certain patterns when we thread otherwise Conan will break irreparably if I don't. I can't be held responsible for your character. That's your job as a roleplayer.
Finally, I would appreciate it if we no longer have any contact between Vermouth and Sherlock. The two IC inbox threads we've had felt like you were trying to circumnavigate CR to go a specific direction by using your secondary character as a mouthpiece. I should have brought this up after the first thread, but I decided not to since I assumed it was a one time thing.
I'm very sorry things built up this far and turned out this way. I hope that Conan finds a more pleasant existence in the box after his canon reset.
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You're not the one that should be sorry, I am. You got wrapped up in all this mess and probably the one the most affected by it and I shouldn't have let it get this bad. I've been thinking a lot the past few days about how everything's played out and honestly I don't blame you a bit for being uncomfortable. I'm really sorry I didn't realise how uncomfortable it was making you and I should have. You're absolutely right, it was my job to be responsible for the mental health of my characters not you I should have never put you in that position and I won't do it again.
I don't want to not get along with anyone and if it's uncomfortable for me, I can't even imagine how uncomfortable it is for you. I really do consider and enjoy talking to you as friend so the last thing I wanted was to make you or anyone else feel uncomfortable.
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I'd like to clarify that the incident with the mentioned other player isn't the stem of the issue. Conan's reliance on Sherlock and a handful of other characters has been an ongoing thing. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was when you mentioned both in IM and on plurk that the actions taken by me and two other players rendered Conan 'unplayable' for you. It was inappropriate and a better course of action would have been to drop the character or implement your canon reset without making a production of putting a name tag to the reason.
If you truly understand what went wrong and you'll make an effort not to repeat it, then that's good news all around. I would like to make one request regarding any potential plotting/cr for the future. I only need to be pinged once for relevant threads. If I choose not to tag into something for an IC or OOC reason, I reserve the right to make that decision without opening myself up to negotiation.
I'm not going to ask you to avoid talking to me on plurks and I won't refuse to thread with you in general. I don't hate you or harbour you any ill will. Everything's just worked up to a boiling point and I think it might be healthiest for everyone if we take a step back and let things heal naturally.
no subject
I wasn't really referring to any specific thing, because it's been multiple ones. Just in general you seem to use Conan's canon as a reason or wedge to push him into things, even when people are trying to do their own thing. I bring up Sherlock and John because it's obvious IC and OOC that Conan has a huge love for Sherlock Holmes stories and detectives, which is awesome, who can fault him, but that's largely where I see this occurring. As I have all three of you on my plurk timeline it's hard to not miss seeing these things happen in plotting plurks, though I typically don't but in or say anything as I'd felt it wasn't my place.
As for everything you're telling me about Conan and his reasons for how he acts and behaves and his emotions, I'm not sure how that factors into what I've said. If I were giving you crit on how you played Conan IC and though you were being OOC, which I honestly can't crit you on not knowing the canon he's from at all, then yes this would be the correct path for this discussion to take. But I'm not critting that.
I just want you to understand that regardless of the IC drama Conan is going through in the box, it's not an excuse to OOCly use it to pressure other people into doing things. You say Conan doesn't want comfort and that he wants Sherlock to tell him he's being an idiot IC, sure that's fine, but OOCly you seem to push very hard for exactly what Conan doesn't want, even when it's not always something people are willing to go along with.
The thing with Conan trying to help/save people is that a lot of the times the way he goes about it ends up with him royally messing up. It's happened a lot really and it's not like ICly these other characters are just going to forget this. They see Conan on the network asking for help or trying to pull one of his little schemes and they just expect a certain something. That's called consequences. That would be like if Khan just killed a bunch of people for no reason, over and over, and people hated him and rightfully were super distrusting and wanted nothing to do with him. ICly sure he's gonna handle it a certain way, but I'm not gonna expect anyone to want to be his bff or trust him as far as they can throw him. That's how RP works. That's how life works, there are consequences for actions good or bad. So while it sucks, these characters already see Conan a certain way and unless he can really do something to make them see otherwise that's just how the cards fall. It's not something that can't be changed, but it's not gonna happen over night or if Conan keeps doing the same thing over and over.
You admitting right up front that you have an unhealthy investment in Conan's thoughts and feelings is one part good that you realize this, but also second part bad since you know this and you still seem to let yourself stay over invested. That's not really a good way to RP as that's how a lot of these issues I've brought up become a problem in the first place.